Episode 18: The San Vicente Lighthouse

In this episode I speak with two guests about the San Vicente Lighthouse and some paranormal activity that has folks in town talking about ghosts that still reside there.

Transcript

Speaker: 0:42

Hey folks, welcome to the Harbor Area Podcast. Today my special guests — I'm gonna let them introduce themselves in a while — but we're gonna be talking about the San Vicente Lighthouse. The San Vicente Lighthouse is not part of the Harbor Area per se, but it is part of the Palos Verdes Peninsula. If you don't know, pull up a map of the Palos Verdes Peninsula and you'll see where the town of Palos Verdes is located. But without further ado, I want to introduce you to my fabulous guests here, Brian and Janelle. Thanks! Brian: Brian Esman with Naturally Green Cleaning. We do cleaning from an all-natural perspective, specifically for people who are allergy sufferers. Host: Talk to us more about that because you are cleaning houses or commercial properties? Let us know a little bit more about your business, Brian. Brian: We do both. We do homes and commercial. Commercial is starting to pick up a little more because with allergies running under OSHA now, more companies are calling us and saying, "Hey, we have this person with chemical sensitivities, for instance — how can you help us out?" So I end up sometimes doing consulting, figuring out a cleaning plan specifically for their situation. But we also focus on homes and people who have sensitivities or allergies and need that. Right now we're working in Palos Verdes — helping people get back into their homes. Host: Not Palos Verdes — oh, Pacific Palisades — helping people get back into their homes after the fires. Brian: After the fires, yeah. Host: Now I hear the voice of a woman. Who is that? Janelle: I'm Janelle Esman. I'm his wife, and I am an elementary school teacher here in San Pedro — 15th Street Elementary. Host: Awesome. Oh my God. Thank you guys so much for coming over and being my guests here. I really appreciate that. We met at a Chamber mixer, a San Pedro Chamber mixer. You were promoting your business — what's it called again? Brian: Naturally Green. Host: Awesome, Naturally Green. And you were also there helping Brian promote his business? Janelle: Yep, there to mingle and have fun. Brian: Absolutely. And I need all the help I can get! Host: And if you know anything about San Pedro, like — we are just a really fun, eclectic group of harbor folk. I'm really excited to do this episode with you because we haven't really talked about any of the other towns and cities, except for Long Beach, Wilmington, and San Pedro. What we're doing folks, if you don't know, do this: just Google the Palos Verdes Peninsula and you'll see San Pedro is in the more southern part of the peninsula, and Palos Verdes runs more — what is that — west? North, if you will, depending on which side of the curve you're on along the coast. What's really interesting about the Palos Verdes Peninsula is that it is huge, and it actually touches a lot of other cities that include the Harbor Area — or what this podcast is describing as the Harbor Area. Anyways, moving on. The San Vicente Lighthouse is really neat because of its location. As we all know, our beaches — our sea cliffs — are not really quite the sandy beaches that we might have in Santa Monica or Venice. Could you folks tell the listeners about our treacherous kind of ocean beaches around here? Brian: Yeah, the beaches are very treacherous. They're rocky; they're cliffs. We tend to get this maritime view similar to the East Coast — very rocky cliffs — and that's where it's coming from. I came from Minnesota and Lake Superior — it's the same kind of thing, with lighthouses way up on these cliffs. It’s a neat perspective that I ended up here. Host: Yeah. Welcome. How long have you been here? Brian: 22 years. Host: The both of you together? Janelle: I've always lived in Los Angeles. I'm a Valley girl. Host: Oh, okay. Janelle: I've lived here in Pedro for about 20 years with Brian. Host: Cool. What part of the Valley? Janelle: San Fernando — Sylmar area. Host: No oceans or beaches out there, right? Janelle: No. When we wanted to go to the beach, we either went all the way to Ventura or we'd go to Santa Monica. Host: Love it, love it. But it's not the Santa Monica, it's not the Venice, it's not the Malibu around here — and this was the purpose or reason for building this lighthouse. Talk to us a little bit about the history. What year was it built, Janelle? Janelle: It was built in 1926 during the Roaring Twenties. I guess California got a lot of money back then, and they were able to build lighthouses up and down the coast at that time. Host: Why did we get money? Do you know? Janelle: I think it was after World War I, before the awfulness of World War II, so it was just a good time for America. Host: Maritime trading was picking up — at least for what we know in the Harbor Area. The port had been dredged. There were ships coming in with different types of materials and goods from — I don't know — around the world? Where were we getting imports from? Brian: Probably a lot from China. I know San Francisco got a lot of stuff from China. Host: That's right. Brian: I think at the time we were actually getting a lot of stuff from Japan. Japan was producing a lot — they were becoming an industrial power at that period in time prior to World War II. Host: I did not know that. Very interesting. Janelle: Me neither.

Headset Microphone (Maonocaster E2)-18: 25:37

Host: My God. Do you know anything else about that? Brian: I think that's one of the reasons California got a lot of money — because they were seeing the expansion of bringing things in from the East, the Far East. But the fact that Japan was the first industrialized nation in the East — they were seeing the possibilities of what would start taking place. Also, you gotta remember that we had just shortly before had the American-Spanish War in the early 1900s, where we had defeated Spain and ended up with the Philippines. So now the Philippines are part of the United States. So the transition to get there and get back — and to create ports that could handle that. Host: And I know from what I can remember from the Phineas Banning episodes, part of his vision came from the East Coast and the ports there — and from San Francisco as well. And I imagine that trade was increasing, like you were saying. And then we needed these lighthouses because ships — because of these treacherous sea cliffs — were crashing. I think we've even had some recent shipwrecks here in the last — I'll say 25 years — where, I don't know where the ship crashed, but they washed ashore and they've rusted and they're definitely on some of the hiking trails — you can hike down and see them along the peninsula. Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Host: Thank you. I thought I was making stuff up. Brian: No, they're there. They're tough to get to, actually. It can be a hazardous hike. I know my buddy went down with his two boys that were like eight and ten at the time, and it was treacherous going. He said, "I won't go down there with kids anymore." Host: So it was built in 1926. Do you know anything about the architectural design? Janelle: Art Deco, I believe. Host: Okay. Janelle: There was a lot of Art Deco in the twenties. They started building skyscrapers, and the technology they were using was some of the same technology for the skyscrapers. They could pour concrete and use rebar and make much stronger structures than previous lighthouses. So you're seeing a unique structure being created here at that period in time. Host: I think this lighthouse is more similar to the Point Fermin Lighthouse than it is to the Angels Gate Lighthouse. Because the Angels Gate Lighthouse is on this human-made breakwater, if you will — that was created by a bunch of rocks laid on top of each other. That lighthouse, the Angels Gate Lighthouse, was built on top of that — about maybe seven feet above sea level. Then you have the Point Fermin Lighthouse — and that is on a sea cliff here in San Pedro. Brian: And a wood structure. Host: A wooden structure, yeah — that is like part house. It's mainly house, and then you have the lighthouse, which is constructed as part of it. But then this lighthouse, similar to the Angels Gate Lighthouse, stands alone — but similar to Point Fermin, it's on a sea cliff. Brian: Yeah. And taller, because they were able to structurally build it higher due to the new technologies in building. Host: Interesting. And I think that the land even is just higher above sea level than the Point Fermin Lighthouse. Brian: Yeah. I believe it's three times as high as the actual height of the lighthouse. Host: Wow. Amazing. What are some of the charming, unique characteristics of this lighthouse that you like? I'm gonna pull up some pictures so we can see what it looks like here. Oh, here we go — it's in my Google search. All right, let's see some of these images. Brian: To be honest with you, the fact that it looks so much like an East Coast lighthouse is appealing because I guess in your mind — maybe just too many Nancy Drew shows or something like that over the years — but the East Coast viewpoint of a lighthouse just connects with that nostalgia. Even though there are a few little homes kind of around it, it's not built into the lighthouse like Point Fermin. Janelle: And it also portrays that Spanish structure that we're so famous for in California — the Spanish architecture. Host: That's what I was gonna say! Looking at these pictures, it's giving me like Mission — California Mission vibes. Janelle: Yeah. Yeah — Santa Barbara. Exactly. When you look at it, especially the aerial view. Host: Wow. It's amazing. And that sea cliff — it looks like the same sea cliff of Point Fermin. And these sea cliffs, at least for what we know in like Portuguese Bend and that — I don't know if it's Rolling Hills — I forget how far the landslide kind of stretches, but it's a good chunk of land on the Palos Verdes Peninsula. Brian: It is, yes. Host: And in order to get there, we need to drive through that. Talk to me about the scenic drive going from San Pedro down 25th Street into that northwestern — does the street name change? Janelle: It does. It starts off as 25th Street. And then there's a little sign that says you're entering RPV (Rancho Palos Verdes), and the street changes to Palos Verdes Drive South. At some point, it changes names to Palos Verdes Drive West — a lot sooner than you would think it does. Host: But it's such a beautiful drive. You start off, the ocean's on your left as you're heading northwest. You see the Trump Golf Course. You used to be able to see the beautiful glass church, Wayfarers Chapel, on the right. Janelle: That's right. Host: Now they've actually been taking it down. Brian: Yeah, it's completely down, I believe. Host: Why? Brian: Because of the landslide. Host: I ask that, folks, but I know — it's because of the landslide.

Speaker: 33:00

Host: We actually used to go to church there because they had the best musicians at Wayfarers Chapel. Janelle: Oh, it’s such a beautiful church. Host: Yeah, the church part was great too, but we loved the music. Brian: The music’s important. Host: It is. Brian: We redid our wedding vows there. Host: No way! What year was that? Brian: I think we did it at seven years — it wasn't an even number or anything. But it was just such a beautiful place and we heard they were doing it, so we renewed our wedding vows. Janelle: They had a "Bless the Animals" Sunday service, so we brought our dogs and had them blessed. Host: Did it help? Janelle: Not really! Brian: They were still good girls though. Host: Did it help them behave better? Brian: They still fought. Host: laughs And now you have two new pups? Brian: Yeah, our dogs lived about 15 years and had very good lives. Host: Interesting that you bring up your pups passing, because I know — is it true there are ghosts here at the San Vicente Lighthouse? Janelle: That's what I've heard. Host: What is it — Lady of the Light or something like that? Janelle: Yeah, Lady of the Light. Host: No way! Who is she? Where does she come from? Janelle: There are a couple different theories. One is that she was the first lightkeeper's wife, and another says that she was a jilted woman who went off the cliffs. Host: Do you think he pushed her? Janelle: No, I think she was sad. Something awful happened, and she didn't see any other way out — so she jumped. Host: This Lady in White used to roam around the sea cliffs of the San Vicente Lighthouse. Some said she was the ghost of the first lighthouse keeper’s wife, and that she stumbled accidentally off the edge on a foggy night. Others say she was a scorned woman left alone after World War II, and she jumped. I love that because you two really did your research — because this scorned woman, who was apparently married to some lighthouse ex-official, jumped off the side of a cliff, and now people say they see her today. Janelle: Yeah. Over at NIA they have a big rock with some information about the area, and on one of those, there's a plaque about the lighthouse and the woman — the Lady of the Light, they call her. Host: What do you know about that, Brian? Brian: As little as possible. Host: laughs What do you think? Do you think she just jumped off the side of a cliff or do you think it was related to the work — like just being isolated on the coast? Brian: I tend to think lighthouse work was really lonely work. You don’t connect with people for 30 days — they run in and bring your groceries maybe every 30 days, or maybe every couple of weeks. You don't see people, and you're lonely, connecting maybe only with your husband or your kids, and there’s not a lot going on. And that can be very depressing. Host: We see people every day — but imagine not seeing anyone — and how that wears on you. Brian: Yeah. And we are social beings. Host: Because what you're talking about is 1926. That's when the lighthouse was built. So today, in 2025, it's 99 years later. Back then, you couldn't just order Uber, right? If you needed your groceries delivered, you had to wait. Brian: There was nothing out there. There were no houses. Host: And talk about the treacherous roads! Brian: Oh, wow. Dirt roads — you're driving a Ford Model A — it takes a while to get there. It's hard to get there. You drop stuff off, and you don't really want to stay — you just want to get back. You take off, and the person is just there. Host: Regardless, it still took time. Brian: Yeah. Maybe five days, three days, one day — but definitely not like Uber today. Host: My guess is they didn’t have a telephone. Maybe a radio? Brian: Maybe a radio. Janelle: The first radio was added around 1934. Host: Fact check us, Janelle! Because we decided to just have a little fun with it. Janelle: Yeah, 1934. Radio station and radio navigation were added. Host: So that’s eight years with no radio, no phone, no nothing. Brian: And how long were they out there? To us it seems like just a half-hour or 45-minute drive — but to them? It was like an hour or two hours. Host: And if you didn't have a car? Brian: What was it like then? Walking? Riding horses? So legend says that she still roams the peninsula. But we were talking earlier about the reduction of the lighthouse’s light — to protect us from enemy ships during wartime. Janelle: Yes, it went from a 1,000-volt light down to a 25-volt light. Host: That's a huge difference! And they painted it white after the war — they painted the north sides white of the glass so that it wouldn't bother the residents. And that's when they started seeing the Lady in White! Brian: Maybe it's related to the painting — a reflection or something? Janelle: Yeah, could be. Host: Or maybe the ghost didn’t like having her visibility blocked! Brian: Plus, these huge lenses were made to reflect out at an angle — for 20 miles. Host: And now there's this white paint on — what — six walls? Brian: Yeah, maybe half the walls. Host: How much does that affect it? Does it create the Lady in White — or is it an actual spirit? Who knows? Host: I love that you bring that up, though — because sometimes when I sit on the coast and look out at the ocean, I want to see a whale or a seal. Sometimes I feel like the ocean plays tricks with my mind. There’s this fascination — wanting to see something — and you almost think you do, but you don't know if it’s really there. Brian: Often you do. You look at dolphin pods and whales. Janelle: We've been to Wayfarers Chapel and sat there watching whales.

Speaker: 40:35

Host: Because they do appear! That's what I love about the San Vicente Lighthouse — between the months of, what would it be, the end of December through March or April — you can actually see the whales migrating south. Janelle: They go south to have their babies in the warm weather — from Canada and Alaska. Brian: Santa Claus! Host: laughs Yes — the North Pole! And they migrate down to the south into our waters. And sometimes you can see them pick up their heads or wave hello. You can see the spouts of water. Janelle: Yeah, it’s amazing. Host: And that's one of the amazing things about the coast along San Pedro. You're out on the peninsula — and the peninsula really sticks out into the ocean. You're not in Santa Monica Bay — you're out there in the Pacific. You're sticking out there and you can see things. I'll tell you something — I feel like the peninsula tells more of the story of the coastal region. You’ve got these rocks, and you've got this peninsula sticking out into the ocean — and that's what it's there for — to protect people and to protect the ships going by. I really just want to thank you two for coming on the podcast — as listeners, as fellow friends, as Cedron members involved in the Chamber of Commerce. I really do think that the Chamber of Commerce is a great place — what a great organization — for businesses and businessfolk to get involved. And I really love what your business is doing — such an interesting time, right, where some folks could care less about what's going on with the environment. But somebody like you, Brian — and they say behind every good man is a good woman (or another good man or another woman) — but here’s a great woman — you're doing this. You're here up front, offering environmentally safe cleaning services. And now, the fires took over this beautiful county, and you're still here saying, "I'm still here to provide environmentally safe cleaning services and cleanup for people impacted by the fires." Brian: It's really about that — it's about keeping people safe. There's so much toxicity in our society, and people's bodies are becoming overwhelmed by it. We're just trying to give people a respite — a safe home, where you can relax and not feel that toxicity. Host: I love that. Brian and Janelle — you two have been so great! The amount of information, the fun time that we've had together — I cannot stop moving around in my chair! Thank you so much for just filling up this time and space. Brian: It's been so much fun — just talking and kidding around — and we're enjoying the topic. Host: I think there's something really important about belonging to your hometown. And I think if you could speak to just the idea of somehow being a part of that — and why it means something to you — it would be really cool. Janelle: Brian came from Minnesota and I came from the San Fernando Valley. And one day, about a year into our marriage living in the Valley, he came home really excited. He said, "I found this amazing community. It's like the small town I grew up in — and it's by the beach — you'll love it." And I'm like, "Oh, wonderful. Where is it?" And he said, "San Pedro." And I was already a teacher at that point, and I had been here for a field trip to the Cabrillo Aquarium. I remembered it because in 2001, when we came on that field trip, it had been raining nonstop for two months in the Valley — everything was flooded. But as soon as we got off the freeway in San Pedro — there was no rain. We even had a picnic outside at the beach! We got back on the bus — and it continued raining all the way home — and for another couple of weeks. So I was thrilled to move to San Pedro! Now that I’ve been living here for almost 20 years — I love the area. I love how anywhere you go, you run into friends. It’s a wonderful community to be part of. Brian: It's the most blessed place. It really is. Host: So you convinced Janelle to move here — twisted her arm? Brian: laughs Yeah, pretty much! But it connected with me. It connected with her. I grew up in a place of 900 people — a little small town in central Minnesota. Here, it is small. It’s connected. Host: So one thing we just — unreal thing we’re gonna do before we go tonight — we’re gonna take a picture! Because I need a picture for the Instagram. I’m glad — and I apologize — because the last time we were probably talking for 20 minutes, and I... I never hit record. Brian: It happens. It's okay. Host: You two are really so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on. Really, thank you for having us. Brian and Janelle: Thank you! Thank you for having us. Host: Hey, thank you for listening today! If you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure to click "Download." Let me know if you have any stories to tell about the Harbor Area! The podcast now has a phone number for listeners to call in and share their thoughts and ideas. That's right — now listeners can call in and share an idea for an episode, or a favorite memory, or a place or thing you love about the Harbor Area. Grab a pencil, pen, or your phone and take this number down: 📞 424-226-6718 That's 424-226-6718. Take care — and remember to treat each other kindly. 💙